You're Fired!

Hey Cadre family, Dr. Carey here, going live. Today's topic is entitled, You're Fired. And I want to have an interactive discussion today about what it's like to have conversations with your employees, difficult conversations, maybe it's about their performance. Ultimately, if you've ever had to let someone go, I just want to have some honest conversations about this because it is something that we deal with in any industry when we have people that we hire on as employees. that report to us and it's a really challenging thing as a leader in whatever capacity as a leader you are.

So I just want to hear from the listeners. If you've ever had to do this, why is it hard? What is the hardest part about talking to someone about their performance? Maybe you had to put them into performance improvement, into a plan. I just want to know what your experience was like with that. And if you've ever had to fire somebody, what that was like, and let's just have a discussion about it. And then I'm going to share some tips as well. So feel free to comment in the chat as we continue to go.

I reached out to one of my friends who's managed a lot of people in her time in the healthcare industry and I said, in your experience, why is it so hard to fire someone? And she said, you are delivering maybe some life-changing news to them in one single sentence. I have to let you go. you're no longer employed with us. Whatever you want to say, however you want to phrase it to soften the blow. But essentially when you say those words, you're fired. I'm letting you go. It can change their entire life.

And she said there's just so much weight in those words because you don't know what this job is for them. Maybe this job is the difference between them putting food on their table and not. Maybe it's the only outlet they have for their mental health to get out of their really destructive house. And so you just don't know what that impact is gonna be when you deliver those words. So it's really hard, especially if you care about your employees, which a lot of really great leaders care. They know their employees, right?

They know them as people. They're like part of a family. We say hi cadre family here because we are literally a family. And when you work with people and you see them and you spend more time with them than you do your actual family, they become family and it's really hard to say, we're gonna cut you out of the family, right? And there's almost this grief period that we go through, whether we are the person firing them or the person being fired or everybody else that's left involved, right? Like somebody that you've now been around for so long that you've spent so much time with, maybe you've lived and breathed with them, like especially people who work in really high stress jobs, like It's like a brotherhood.

When you work in the fire or a paramedic or police force, like people that are laying their lives down on the line for each other, military personnel, like this is not just a co-worker. This is like a brother. This is a sister. This is a family member. So it's a really hard thing to deliver that news to someone. I totally get it. And it really made me start to reflect on, okay, so that is one of the biggest challenges about firing someone. But why do we struggle so much then to give them fair warning?

Like, hey, you're not performing. I don't want to fire you. Like that's the end goal here, but I don't want to fire you. I want to see your performance turn around. And I think if I were to guess, if I were to venture a guess, and from the research that I've done on this topic, it goes back to our ability to set healthy boundaries when we can't have difficult conversations. Because one of the things that I was talking about with my coaching clients this week was if you are going to set a healthy boundary with someone, you're probably going to change the dynamic of your relationship if you've never set a boundary before.

But essentially you're asserting yourself in that conversation and saying, hey, this is what I need to see or these are the consequences. And we struggle with that as human beings. And I don't think a lot of us have it modeled for us either. I definitely didn't see any healthy boundaries modeled for me in any industry I've worked in. I have never worked for a manager that did that. Maybe my last job had maybe the best example of that, but we don't see that modeled very often. And so then we're put in these positions as leaders and we're told, go have crucial conversations when you've never maybe done that in your entire life.

So I just want to give you guys some tips today And like Brene Brown says, being kind, or I'm sorry, being clear is being kind. And that's really important because if somebody's job is on the line, they need to know that. And you need to be up front with them about it. That's being kind, right? By letting them know, okay, so this is what we expected in your job description and it's not being delivered. What can we do to help you get there? And maybe it becomes kind of a co-creation of solution. I've seen a lot of managers do such a poor job of this.

They identify when somebody's not performing. They bring them into the office and say like, your performance sucks. You're not delivering. You're not meeting your goals. What are you going to do about it? Rather than saying, okay, first of all, let's just talk about how you're doing. How's life going for you outside of work? And a lot of times it probably points to something outside of work as to why they're not performing at work, which is one of the beauties of our coaching team at Cadre, because that's one of the things we specialize in, being able to help your employees identifying what's going on outside of work to help them with their work performance.

I know it sounds a little bit counterintuitive because you're like, well, they need coaching for stuff going on at home, but they're not doing shit at work. Well, maybe there's a reason why, because they've got other stuff going on at work. And so maybe you start the conversation off with that. I just want to know how you are doing. Let's just talk about you for a second. How are you doing? And then maybe it starts off with after that, pointing some things out. So saying to them, I've noticed that you haven't been meeting your goals lately.

Stop. Just let them reflect. Let them respond. You'll learn a lot about somebody by just making an observation statement. and seeing what they do with it. If they get super defensive, if they jump all over you and say like, I don't know what you're talking about, I've been performing just fine, that's going to clue you into maybe what's going on with their mental health, but also maybe where they're at with their loyalty to your company. If they're immediately going to get defensive when you just make a comment of, I've observed that you haven't been performing lately.

And give them an opportunity to speak to it. And maybe it's then Okay, here's where we're at. This is what I need to see from you. Like be clear and set the boundaries, set the limits, tell them what the consequences of that action. Give them a deadline. And then I also want to challenge you as a leader to think about what motivates your team. because maybe this person is motivated by something and they're not getting that kind of motivation. I'm not saying that you need to tailor every single thing you do in the company to each person's motivation, but if they're not performing, maybe they're not being motivated in the way that works for them.

And I know all of us are motivated by different things. Some people are just motivated by money. Some people are motivated by internal motivation. Some people are motivated by kudos and good jobs and winning the company award for the month, whatever it may be. But I would also challenge you as a leader to think about that. How do my employees feel motivated? How do they feel valued? Maybe I need to do some self-reflection as to why a bunch of my employees are not like performing. If that's the case, might be something to look at new.

And I'm not saying that like your whole company is against you or something, but it's something to think about if there seems to be patterns there. So just again, as a reminder, be clear. Clear is kind. let them know, hey, you're not meeting the mark, you're not fulfilling the deadlines. Be very clear in how you communicate that and set very clear expectations. This is what I need to see by this date or this is the consequence. I mean, really, it's honestly up to them how they want to respond at that point because you've given them the information they need to make an educated decision.

Maybe you reach out to Cadre Coaching and we help hook them up with someone to get some of that other stuff in their life addressed. Got one of our amazing coaches tuning in right now, Dan Cunningham. He's ready, waiting for the client that you want to send us. So maybe that's it. Maybe you need to get them a little bit more resources. And then just remember at the end of the day, when you do have to deliver that news of you're fired, I got to let you go, Take yourself out of it. I know some people when they have to deliver that news are, you feel almost like this is a poor reflection on me as a leader, this and this and this.

Like if you've set clear boundaries and you've given them the things they need to know in order to perform and they're not doing it, it's kind of simple at that point and you can take the emotion out of it. right? And you can hurt for them and be like, gosh, I really wish I didn't have to do this. But you also have to think about what's happening with the rest of the company, right? Like how much of your energy as a leader is going towards that? How much of your energy is being sucked by that employee that you have constantly put in performance improvement you've been talking with for months, for years, they've been in your company and they still just don't meet the mark and you've given them chance after chance after chance.

Eventually, I think honestly, the kindest thing you can do for them is let them go and maybe it means they find something that's better fit for them. Maybe this isn't their strong suit. So sometimes when you fire someone, it could also be the best blessing they've ever needed. It can sometimes be the motivator for someone to help them go chase after what their dreams are. It can be the motivator to get their life in order. I was looking at this list of motivators today and one of them was hit rock bottom.

Maybe they need to hit rock bottom as their motivator to then go find a job that's gonna be a good fit for them and a company that's gonna be a good fit for them. So just know that sometimes it might be the best thing that ever happened to them if you have to fire them, but it shouldn't come out of nowhere when you do it. keep that in mind. So I hope this was helpful. Thanks for tuning in, Dan, Katie, thanks for your comments. If you have anything else you want to share, drop it in the chat. I've loved chatting with this with you guys today.

It's just, it's a passion of mine as I've seen so many leaders do such a horrible job leading. One of the reasons I've really struggled in the healthcare hospital system is is people end up getting promoted to leadership that have no leadership skills. They just kind of have been around the longest. I think there's probably a lot of companies like that. Katie, but what if they lose their benefits and can't get the help they need? Oh my gosh, yes. Such a big, big deal. I can tell you there are so many ways to get benefits these days.

There are so many things you can do to get free or low cost healthcare, to get free counseling. I myself have been on state insurance before when I've had like very little income. There are ways to do it. You have to sometimes navigate that system and unfortunately maybe they are carrying the benefits for their family. There are so many other options out there. there. And I would challenge you to think if that is the only reason I am keeping them on in my company is so that they can get benefits and get the mental health care they need, maybe their role needs to change then.

maybe they need a sabbatical. Maybe you still give them a deadline. I worked with somebody who struggled with an alcohol problem and unfortunately it was dangerous for the patients. It was dangerous for the staff. He was in a leadership role and Yes, it was devastating. We had to let him go and then he lost his health benefits. But there are so many treatment centers that do different payment structures. And we had to look into the best interests of our company, our organization, the patients that he was overseeing, because in the end, it wasn't good for anybody, right?

To keep putting him in a role that was causing him stress that then made him want to drink. So I would say, you know, think about it. If that's the only thing that you're keeping them on for, maybe it is like the best thing for them to not have the stress of that job. And there are so many other options to get health benefits. I know that's not a great answer, but that's my best suggestion for you, Katie. So I hope that's helpful. Thanks for the questions. And thank you for just tuning in. I know this is a hard subject and I definitely don't claim to be an expert in it, but I have lived it, seen it a lot and had a lot of difficult conversations with staff before when I manage staff and it's hard.

It's one of the harder things in leadership. So I appreciate you guys being on with me today. Take care. Have a great afternoon. Happy Thanksgiving.